Rush Counter Idea- pulling the goalie

[Arzachel]

This is going to sound really hokey, but It's worked most of the time I've tried it.
THe name comes from the only sports analogy I can think of that works for it.

1) Develop strong econ. If you're not playing nats, alterate mining posts and walls with iron export/bank
2) Build some very strong comps, but don't put resources negative. No more then 1 elite usually. Here's where Blast Furnaces and Mage Colleges come into play. Also, make sure these comps are good at town-taking, preferably paladins/cleric or paladin/mage in inf comps.
3) Save Gold. (You'll see why later)

When the rush comes, ignore it, then attack his backside.

YOu'll take a nasty hurting, possibly go into negative econ, but you'll have the gold saved

You're gold will hold you over, his gold will crumple.

I guess this is the Arena League Strategy, since it's based on wiping out your opponent quicker then he can.

Usually if the rush is Ceyah, taking out one of his villages will hurt him more then him taking out one of yours.

BTW, this can even work against Three_Wood possibly.

[Xadelious]

hehehe... I dunno about that Strat but I think its a 30% chance out 100 that you will clean him up before he cleans you up...

------------------
- Xadelious

"There is no hope here... We all shall leave soon..."

[Bazel]

Well, "if the net is empty," it would only take like 1-2 companies to take care of your towns while the rest of his army moves back for defense...

[Arzachel]

The question is would he know the net is empty?

You might want to defend one town, leave the rest empty, then go for us as a modified version of it, also his army is father away from his home bases then yours is if it's pulled right.

ENgineers and outposts also can slow him down some.

As for the 30% comment, I'd likely agree, but it beats 0%.

Nats have the easiest time pulling this strategy off if they use the "Manifest Destiny" strat. Ceyah would have hardest time pulling it off I think- you need heavy troops, and ceyahs are SLOW.

You could say this is the strat to use when you overdid econ.
Also, your troops when you pull this strat need a decent DV. I don't know if it would work with shadow beasts.

[CDC_Clueless]

The empty net you talk about may work. I can think of ways to use this in certain situations:

Depending on geography, you may have a couple of pinch points on the approaches to you towns. This helps defence, but slows expansion. But you could litter these areas with outpost to engage the enemy and slow him down. If you have fast moving troops, you may destroy more of his econ, then you lose, but remember, if he has even 1 city left, he will have troops left, at least they dont die as soon as his econ falls short. So he may well finish you off first.

I was doing ths tactic yesterday during a team game, but I made a few mistakes early, over taxed my resources, by not paying close enough attention to support levels. Now my team mates were holding the approach to my cities, but they lost..and I only was able to raze 3-4 of the enemy's cities, before they broke my teammates defenses. Did I hurt them? yes, enough to change the outcome of the game? no.

My biggest fault is getting greedy. I get my econ going, and stop expanding, and build troops(after 4-5 cities). This will work if you hit them fast enough to stop his expansion. BUT, id it turns into a long game your toast. He now is established in a wider area, and now you cant expand without taking his towns.

As for rushing, use Ceyah. You can build alot fast, but they are weak. But you can gain the advantage depending on terrain, map layout(pinch points, mines, indies). if you use Ceyah, and have indies, you can get huge. Once had 12 cities in about 10 minutes(3 I built, and the rest were indies, enemies cities) and if you hit that point you can absorb almost any punishment, and still rally. This is another reason it is hard to counter attack using you method. If the enemy is established over numerous cities and a wide area, it is hard to raze enough cities to change the outcome of the game.

That said, Dragoons and Cavaliers are very good for this as the move fast. But they are expensive to build and maintain. Void and shadow beast are two other units that are good for this. But you have to have the econ for this. Also, the support units you put with the main cav, are very important. You can only use fast support units(rangers, Shadow Demons, etc) and if you use a hero, he too must be a high movement unit. This is where I screw it up sometimes. I dont think it out enough and commission units I cant support, so there goes my gold to buy the mana or iron etc..And it cost more to buy it, then to produce it.

I always start with a bank, iron export, library, temple. But you gotta upgrade to mage colledge, and build lots of em to use extensive void beast.

Oh well, I am not the best player here..(ask coolgurl) but I love to play this game, and Im getting better. Sometimes I try to change strats in the middle of the game..big mistake..



------------------
Cant think of anything profound to say....

[morpheus133]

1) Develop strong econ. If you're not playing nats, alterate mining posts and walls with iron export/bank
2) Build some very strong comps, but don't put resources negative. No more then 1 elite usually. Here's where Blast Furnaces and Mage Colleges come into play. Also, make sure these comps are good at town-taking, preferably paladins/cleric or paladin/mage in inf comps.
3) Save Gold. (You'll see why later)

When the rush comes, ignore it, then attack his backside.

there is no way you can classify an attack as a rush when you have the build you are suggesting. no more than one elite? companies with paladins/clerics and paladin mages? if 3 wood rushes you, you will be hit in the first 10 to 15 minutes. the point of a rush is to attack before you have any military. and that is usually the case if you go economy early. it is good to attack an opponents cities instead of his unbeatable army. but dont think your strat can be classified as anti rush in any way.

[InfernalMIKO]

Morph beat me to it.:^) I would humbly suggest that if your opponent waits long enough for you to build elites he's not using the rushing strat, he's using the 'taking your own sweet time' strat.:^)

As someone who always looks for an opening to strike deep and burn cities, the strat is interesting but it seems much more like a desperation tactic rather than something you plan to do from the begining.

I'd suggest if you are thinking elites, cavs and voids are optimal for this though. You have to burn towns fast and they have the toughness to go through militias without taking any real damage (so no need to stop and rest them) and they do damage so fast the town goes poof in seconds. Inf with mage support is strong but slow and you whole strat seems to rely on razing his towns faster than he razes yours.


------------------
Hyper Visual CherryBabe


Miko


-----------------------
Energetic stupidity, once invested with authority and allowed to accumulate experience, can do a convincing imitation of a hard driving professional soldier


J.M. Cameron - The Anatomy of Military Merit

[DreamKnight]

Originally posted by Arzachel:
.
1) Develop strong econ. If you're not playing nats, alternate mining posts and walls with iron export/bank
2) Build some very strong comps, but don't put resources negative. No more then 1 elite usually. Here's where Blast Furnaces and Mage Colleges come into play. Also, make sure these comps are good at town-taking, preferably paladins/cleric or paladin/mage in inf comps.
3) Save Gold. (You'll see why later)

When the rush comes, ignore it, then attack his backside.
[/b]

Three things. First, since when do you ever ever ever have time to build all this stuff before the 'rush' What the heck are you talking about? If by 'rush' you mean the planned attack that comes in say, 20-30 minutes into the game, you need to learn what a rush really is.

Second - this strategy assumes you know when the attack is coming - here's why.

If the attack comes early, you don't have enough gold saved, and you'll be in the same boat as the other player when you start taking each others towns.

If it comes late, you'll have a hoard of gold saved (or you'll have started using it again, having wasted time letting it rest in the back) and his army will be bigger and badder than yours. He might leave some defense behind, forcing you to take your time killing it. Or he'll see you're towns are undefended as son as your army marches up to his, split his bigger, badder army up and take your towns twice as fast.

Three - if your army starts hitting his towns, and they're undefended, he's going to sell his components in those towns, if he's bright at all. That'll give him the extra gold he needs to keep his bigger, badder army marching through your towns faster than you can march through his. Your army will waste more time healing from his militia, spend more time taking his towns.

The only way to really 'counter-rush' is to have a good idea where the attack is coming. Then you make sure that area is sufficiently defended and counter-attack, OR you make sure that you can stall his army there long enough for him to either break off the attack to deal with yours before he incurs significant damage, or so that your armies will mow through his towns faster than his do to yours.

[Crexis]

Wouldn't it be wiser to have say: 4 towns, defend one, leave rest empty for taking. And then attack in the back. Opponent would get you're worthless towns, probably raises them since he don't have money for buildup. Have no zone of supply. You take out some of his towns, and then head back to slaughter remainder of army.

You keep your comps, he loses his. You have few towns, he has few towns. He econ in negative, you not!

Don't think this will work often but it might. Offense is best defense ... sometimes.

[CLee]

It works.... but shhh don't tell anyone else.

[Arzachel]

Actually that version of it works better, the first time I used the strat, I had +20 stone, so I just built two engineer/cleric comps to back up my town, while my three dragoon comps, lated jopined by cavs, tore everything up in the back.

Also, I define "rush" as any overkill attack that you have no chance of defening. I don't put rush in the negative context some people do. I apologize if the term is confusing.

Usually I try to organize my cities so the weak towns are the ones taken first, the heavy econ and mana towns are in the back.

[morpheus133]

the general accepted definition of a rush is trying to attack before the enemy has a military. whether it is negatively looked upon or not, the point of it is to attack as SOON as possible before the opponent has time to prepare. but back to your strat. i think its a good desperation tactic, but i dont think its something to plan on from the start. with all the money you use on walls and outposts and ect, you could have used to make your own "unstoppable" army and either defend, or attack as need be. i play all team games as well, so you have to consider that in too. depending on what the allies on both sides do, but you are at the disadvantage when you leave the net open because he is already in the process of taking your towns and you still have to march to his rear which takes time. also if you havent scouted his half of the map, it can take you quite a while to find a good target. overall its a good desperation tactic, but i dont think i would develope my game plan around it.

[CLee]

Hi morpheus how you doing?